washington is always messed up. >> grover norquist joining us from washington this morning. >> let's talk about the situation we find ourselves in. and the prospect we could go over the fiscal cliff and what specifically that would mean for the u.s. economy. diana is a former labor department chief economist under george w. bush, and senior fellow at the manhattan institute. here at post 9 in new york is rock johnson u.s. senate banking committee, and now at the institute for new economic thinking and senior fellow at the roosevelt institute. how would you explain what is going on at the moment for people sitting at home worried about what's happening in the new year? >> it's the same old stuff in washington. it's just haggle, haggle, haggle. and they're not addressing the real problems of america, which are jobs, productivity, education, science research, and withering infrastructure. this is appalling, and the american people should watch whatever's happening with a sense of disgust. >> you feel clearly very strongly. >> yes. >> why do you think we've got to this stage? what could